Minutes:
The Chair opened the meeting and welcomed those in attendance.
The Licence Holder confirmed receipt of the paperwork.
The Licensing and Enforcement Officer presented the report to the Sub Committee.
The Sub Committee procedure was followed.
The Sub Committee was adjourned at 10:50 hours, and the Licence Holder, Environmental Health Team Manager and Licensing and Enforcement Officer left the room for Members to deliberate.
The Sub Committee reconvened at 11:43 hours, and the Licence Holder, Environmental Health Team Manager and Licensing and Enforcement Officer returned to the meeting.
The Chair invited the Legal Team Manager to set out in summary the Sub Committee’s decision.
The Legal Team Manager stated the decision of the Licensing Sub Committee was: to REVOKE the combined Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Driver’s Licence WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
The Sub Committee made findings of fact and gave the following reasons as follows:
1. In relation to the complaint received in December 2024, the Panel listened to the complaint made to the Licence Holder’s Operator and viewed the CCTV footage of the entire journey taken from inside the Licence Holder’s taxi.
2. The CCTV footage showed the Licence Holder conversing with a lone passenger. For the first (approximate) 6 minutes of the journey, the conversation was ‘small talk’ about Leeds and other areas in the UK, as well as holiday destinations and pricing. At just after 6 minutes of the journey, after a pause in the conversation, the Licence Holder asked, “what’s the nicest compliment to give to a lady?” – this part of the conversation went on for around 3.5 minutes and included discussions about online dating.
3. At approximately 9 minutes and 25 seconds into the journey, the Licence Holder said, “I was asking one lady what does stop mean”. The Licence Holder then continued talking about performing oral sex on a female, and stated, “where I am from stop doesn’t mean stop [laughs] stop means continue… if she says stop and she’s still there it’s more like she’s telling you, you be the one to initiate this not me, that’s the information she’s trying to pass to you”. The conversation continued with the Licence Holder talking about initiating sex. Shortly after this, the passenger interrupted and said they needed to take a phone call – they continued talking on the phone for the remainder of the journey.
4. The Panel noted that the telephone call taken by the passenger had been arranged via text with their partner as they;
i. Felt uncomfortable with the conversation;
ii. Did not want the Licence Holder to believe they was arriving to an empty home / alone; and,
iii. They were fearful the Licence Holder would try something and the passenger was alone and would not able to do anything.
It was noted the passenger had reported the matter to the Police after the journey had ended.
5. The Panel listened to the Licence Holder’s explanation that nothing was meant by the conversation – they believed it to be a normal topic of conversation. The Licence Holder stated that they were not trying to initiate anything with the passenger, but on reflection appreciated that in the UK it may not have been a conversation that should have happened.
6. The Panel were concerned with the conversation and language from the Licence Holder. The Panel accepted that the passenger felt fearful and worried about appearing alone and what could happen.
7. The Panel discussed at length the above concern, and the Licence Holder’s response to a question that in future they would ‘keep conversations professional’.
8. The Panel noted that the Licence Holder had been a licensed driver for a very short time and so had only recently completed all the requisite courses a driver needed, including safeguarding. The Panel considered whether re-doing any courses would improve the Licence Holder’s understanding of the appropriateness of their language / conversation, but they did not feel such courses would address their concerns.
9. The safety of the public was of paramount consideration. The Panel asked themselves whether they ‘would allow their daughter or son, granddaughter or grandson, spouse, mother or father, or any other person for whom they cared for or any vulnerable person they knew, to get into a vehicle with the Licence Holder alone’ – the Panel’s answer was ‘no’.
10. The Panel’s view was that no passenger should be made to feel fearful or worried for their safety when travelling in the back of a taxi. The Licence Holder’s language and topic of conversation was inappropriate and had caused a passenger concern for their safety.
11. The Panel’s decision was to revoke the Licence Holder’s combined licence with immediate effect in accordance with Section 61(1)(B) of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, in order to promote public safety due to the conduct of the Licence Holder as set out in the Licensing and Enforcement Officer’s report and as set out above.
Considerations:
In reaching its decision, the Sub Committee took into consideration the following factors:-
(i) The report and evidence of the Licensing and Enforcement Officer, including the audio recording of the complaint and the CCTV footage from the vehicle;
(ii) The character references provided in support of the Licence Holder;
(iii) The provisions of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976;
(iv) The Human Rights Act 1998 and of The First Protocol, Article 1;
(v) The Council’s Policy and Guidelines.
The decision letter would be posted to the Licence Holder within 5 days. There was a right of appeal against the Sub Committee’s decision to the Magistrates Court, exercisable within 21 days of receipt of the notification.
The Sub Committee was adjourned at 11:45 hours for the Licence Holder for Item 6 to leave and the Licence Holder for Item 7 to attend the hearing.
The Sub Committee was reconvened at 11:54 hours.